Season 2, Episode 7: Karolina Attspodina, WeDoSolar
This week on The Solar Journey, Torsten sits down with Karolina Attspodina, the dynamic CEO and co-founder of WeDoSolar. Karolina’s journey into the solar industry was informed by the desire to expand the boundaries of PV applications – giving apartment dwellers and renters the chance to benefit from the technology.
Her company, WeDoSolar, specializes in smart balcony solar systems. And she has plenty of advice for clean technology entrepreneurs.
As Karolina explains, "When you’re building a company, it's all about being fast, having the right team, and not being afraid to try new things." With her keen focus on simplifying tech for consumers, Karolina aims to transform urban solar adoption and redefine how we think about decentralized, accessible energy.
This week’s episode is packed with startup insights, helpful resources, and Karolina’s take on the power of mindset in business. We hope this episode inspires some listeners to start a climate tech business and begin their own solar journey!
🎧 Listen to the full episode here.
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🔄 Connect with Karolina on LinkedIn.
Show Notes:
Karolina’s “solar spark” moment in Portugal
Karolina's entrepreneur starter pack: "Diary of a CEO" podcast, "How I Built This" podcast, and "Mindset" by Carol Dweck
Insights on educating consumers in solar and navigating B2C challenges
Key lessons learned from launching multiple startups
Navigating legislation and advocacy for balcony solar systems
Expansion plans for smart solar devices and energy storage solutions
Karolina’s thoughts on the future of solar innovation in Europe
Transcript
[00:00:00.000] - Torsten
Welcome to another episode of The Solar Journey. Our guest today is Karolina Attspodina. Welcome, Karolina.
[00:00:10.280] - Karolina
Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Super excited.
[00:00:13.490] - Torsten
Let me briefly introduce Karolina. She's a co-founder and the CEO of WeDoSolar. She founded WeDoSolar in 2021, and the company is based in Berlin, Germany, and it provides smart solar consumer electronics. The most prominent product line is a balcony solar system. I've got one myself, actually.
It's fair to call Karolina a serial entrepreneur because WeDoSolar is already her third company she founded. She's got a degree in economics, and her first roles were in sales and business development. She's all about the commercial side of businesses.
Compared to some of our guests on The Solar Journey, you're a relatively new entrant to the solar industry. What attracted you to go into solar? What was the solar spark moment?
[00:01:10.920] - Karolina
I think this question is asked quite a lot, and I definitely had my spark moment, and I'm going to talk about it in a second. But usually I tell people that I'm just crazy enough to try something new because obviously I'm not an engineer. And this is something that I think people wouldn't usually consider, right? If they're not, let's say, experts in the domain. But for me, it was quite an interesting challenge, I would say.
So I think the spark moment for me was in Portugal. It was COVID times. And while walking through the streets of Lisbon, they have a lot of different Christmas lights during Christmas. And one of my friends was saying, Do you know that actually these Christmas lights are all solar-based? The government doesn't use any energy and really tries to reduce their energy usage during this time. And I was like, Wow, this is so amazing. Why isn't every single country out there in the world do the same thing? Because it makes so much sense.
And then at some point, after a few months, I actually got two solar clients. One had a solar-based AC that they were installing in real estate buildings. And one actually had solar blinds. So I found it fascinating that you can put solar in your blinds and then install that in the home. For me, it made sense that there should be other products as well out there that help us not only reduce our CO₂, which was the topic of what I was thinking of from the very start, but also how can we actually make our energy bills much smaller? Why can't we use solar in the cities? Why can't we use solar for renters? And so on. This was the question and the spark moment actually happened through a Christmas light which was solar-based.
[00:03:12.900] - Torsten
Before joining PV, you worked in marketing, strategy, and sales, and also, as I understand, in a consultancy role. How do you compare the customer relationship in solar to these other industries you worked before?
[00:03:26.980] - Karolina
Well, I think it's all relatable. To be honest, right now, what we do here with solar and how we, let's say, adopt the product is also purely based on the marketing and the sales, let's say, skills that I have from before. My specialty was all about taking difficult tech products and seeing how to simplify them. How to simplify them, not just in order to sell to the market, but also how to tell the story a bit better.
Because solar is such a complicated topic. I think people really think about big solar farms out there, potentially solar on the rooftops, and not everybody's fortunate enough to be able to install such an installation. For me, it was how can we take a topic that is so technical and maybe even scary at times and make it extremely simple.
Over the journey of my career, I've been making products simple. So that's what helps me. And I think in terms of customers, they want simplicity, they want something easy. And of course, not all of us are tech savvy and understand how exactly electricity works and what we should do.
[00:04:49.400] - Torsten
We'll come to your actual products a little bit later, how you, I guess, also try to simplify solar balcony systems.
Before, I'd like to stay a bit more on your choices you did in the past. You were always in sales and business development. In a bit, you already outlined maybe why you are attracted to these roles. But maybe you can elaborate on that a little. What do you like about sales, the marketing, the business development in general?
[00:05:20.760] - Karolina
Well, in general, no company is going to be existing without those two.
[00:05:25.100] - Torsten
That's for sure. Only the very lucky ones.
[00:05:29.590] - Karolina
Yes, yes, yes. Very just few, right? But in general, everything is built on the sales and the marketing of the company. And of course, the marketing really depends. It could be organic marketing, it could be PR, it could be... There are so many different kinds. But sales and marketing, I see it as one.
So usually, I think, corporations or organizations separate those teams. And then sales and marketing are two different teams. I don't I really believe in that. I think those two teams really need to collaborate and be as one, because the more, let's say, touch points they have, the more successful the company will actually become. So for me, this is one of the major crucial parts. You can definitely have a good product, but if you don't have the understanding of how to sell this product, nobody will potentially see it. So this is a crucial part for any business, just like for ours.
I guess from my side, of course, as I said, I'm not an engineer. I have a fantastic co-founder who is an engineer, and he makes the crazy ideas happen. Well, I'm able to portray the vision of what we're selling and what our future potentially is then with solar.
[00:06:53.520] - Torstehn
You like the, let's say, storytelling and the translation from a technical features, technical products into a story the customers like.
[00:07:03.660] - Karolina
Absolutely. At the end of the day, we have to understand that people are buying from people. I back companies that I love and that inspire me. That's the same thing for us. I think it goes for any startup. I think when you're building your journey in a startup or maybe personal brand, it doesn't matter. It's all about the story. What are people going to relate to?
[00:07:31.140] - Torsten
Let's jump to PV. In PV, the traditional sales channel was from manufacturers of modules or the other hardware to distributors, then to installers. The installers were the actual interface with customers. Now, you work directly with consumers. You try to make the consumers the installers. What do you see as the biggest challenges in selling solar to apartment owners or residents?
[00:08:03.260] - Karolina
I mean, in general, B2C is really hard, right? That's a really hard business, and only very few, I would say, get lucky or how to crack the code and have an instant growth in the B2C market. And it's definitely not easy for us.
In terms of working with consumers directly, one of the challenges is that people don't necessarily believe that the system will work on such a small scale or that it will help them on such a small scale. Even though the story is very easy, they might not understand if they really need it. I think the whole educational aspect, and it takes a couple of years to educate the market until the, I would say, the majority starts to buy and believe in a certain technology.
Since we were one of the first ones to be on the market with such a product, we were going through that stages of education. This is, a lot of time, but also a lot of money to educate the market, to be able to trust the product that is actually out there. Because we'll probably get into investments and things like that in a second.
But even for for VCs or for any type of investors, a new product like this, especially in hardware, is really hard to think into the future. You have your own little vision as a founder, but then can investors see that vision and can they see that product working out and potentially bringing profit? It's a tricky question, but education is basically the hardest part of it all.
[00:09:59.580] - Torsten
We'll come to the value proposition and the way you finance your startup a little later. Before, I'll like to jump to the fact that you're a serial entrepreneur, right? I think three times makes a series. What are the three top learnings for you as a founder?
[00:10:20.460] - Karolina
This might sound cliché because I think so many entrepreneurs say this, but you need to be fast. I think that's one of the main things. Whether it's failing fast or iterating fast or pivoting fast. I think fast is one of the major learnings and major things that you have to do if you want to be the first. Nobody wants to be the second, so I strive to be the first.
Number two is definitely team. Who are you building it with? Your team members at the very start matter. The culture that you're building matters. So I think all these these aspects really matter in the long run for the future as you're building the company along.
The third one, I would say just to be crazy enough to try new things and not be afraid, to be honest, because I think so many people are afraid. And what's the worst thing that can happen? It doesn't work out potentially. But I think if you're not afraid, you have that confidence that people want to be part of. And potentially, you get new partners on board and you get more sales and so on. I think the energy of the person and the whole team and how you portray yourself is a huge thing in business.
[00:11:42.670] - Torsten
You already mentioned two characteristics of a good founder, which is that they have to be crazy and brave. I believe, I hope that there are people listening to this podcast who consider to start a company. So what should they bring to the table If they want to be successful, except for being crazy and brave, what would you add?
[00:12:05.100] - Karolina
I think this is my version, of me being crazy, not being afraid to try something new. I think when I was starting out, I was rather inspired by the fact that there is only so many women in the world that started solar companies. And it was literally a handful that I could count on my both hands. And it was crazy to me that it's so little. So I definitely wanted to make an impact in that, let's say, sector as a woman entrepreneur and make sure that others get inspired as well by seeing, okay, I can actually start a tech company and it's not scary, right? And it definitely can work out. So one of the things for me is to inspire others.
And I give also lectures in universities where I'm super excited to see a class where there is a lot of women. And I just want to inspire that generation of of newcomers that will hopefully have their own business. I think education in terms of schools has been lacking so much that our curriculums are so outdated. We're not really thought properly about business and finances and how we can actually start a company, but rather how can we work for someone.
I think this is where I would love for our society to change a little bit and definitely inspire the new generations to not think that they cannot do something or they cannot achieve something. That's one of the biggest drivers, I think, for me.
[00:13:50.370] - Torsten
I totally agree on the educational part. I think one of the issues is that we train the kids to solve problems. Two plus two is four. But In business, you don't have these simple questions. You have more polarities. It could be this, but it could be that. Because it's about the future and you can't really predict, so you need to train people to accept.
You don't have to solve problems, but polarities where sometimes you don't know. You have to trust your gut feel or your experience. I think this is where we don't do such a good job as a society. We train them to solve problems, but not polarities, the abstract. You can't predict. After all, you need a lot of luck. That's when the craziness and the brave part comes in. I totally agree. Very cool.
[00:14:39.240] - Karolina
I think also the mindset. When I was growing up, at least during my, let's say, first years in Ukraine. I was born in Ukraine, and it's the post-Soviet Union country that the mindset is very closed in the sense of encouraging your kids to not be afraid to do something. I was never encouraged to do something bigger, or I was never thought that I can do anything in this world. I was rather probably put down that this is not possible. It's not for you. It's not for the girls. So these were my realities. And I definitely don't want to live the way my childhood or my teenage years actually were.
And I believe that if we teach our kids from the very early on, that there are no glass ceilings and anything is possible and they shouldn't be afraid, they will have massive confidence in themselves, but also in what they can build. So I think that definitely potentially delayed my entrepreneurial journey, but I'm here now, so all good.
[00:16:01.360] - Torsten
Excellent. It's a wonderful topic. Actually, it's one of my favourite topics, really. So that's why we'd like to add one more question. So how did you break out of your jail? How did you become aware of it? And when you said, Hey, no, I'm not in a jail. I can do whatever I want.
[00:16:17.200] - Karolina
Yeah. I think people that surround you is super important. And when I came to Germany 13 years ago, I was surrounded by entrepreneurs. It was the time when people were raising huge amounts of money, just getting out of university and just doing such weird companies that I couldn't even believe that they raised this much amount of money. But it was possible, and it was possible. And I could see this possibility.
And a lot of them definitely encouraged me that, Hey, why don't you do your own thing? You're so good at X, Y, Z. Why don't you do your own thing? And they kept on repeating this and repeating this. And then I was helping others to do X, Y, Z in their business. And at some point, I said, Okay, maybe it is time for me to try and to see how this actually works out.
So definitely your surrounding and who you're with hugely influences on your decisions and how you're going to build your potential startup. And then it comes to, okay, first you have the encouragement maybe from your surroundings, and then you're getting into the maybe more philosophical part of like, how can I read more about entrepreneurship and mindset and how this affects and so on.
Then you're starting to grow completely different sides of you that you haven't even considered before.
[00:17:48.600] - Torsten
Any good resources, podcast, books that you recommend entrepreneurs or to be entrepreneurs?
[00:17:54.200] - Karolina
Yeah. So one of my favourites is definitely "Diary of the CEO," but probably a lot of entrepreneurs watch that one. That's with Steven Bartlett. And another one I really love, it's a podcast of Guy Raz, which is called "How I Built This." And these are basically, the renowned entrepreneurs, they're telling stories how their companies actually came about. I don't know, for some, they were selling fax machines, and then all of a sudden, they're doing something completely different. So it's just about not giving up and the survival mode, which I think every single entrepreneur goes through.
And we just spoke about mindset. One of my favourite books is by Carol Dweck, which is called "Mindset," about closed versus open mindset and how we can actually shift on mindset in order to fulfill our full potential. And I think every single one of us has it within them. We just need to work on it. It's like going to the gym every day and seeing whether you develop some muscles. I think it's the same thing.
[00:19:09.340] - Torsten
Wonderful. We'll put these resources into the show notes. Thanks a lot for your advice here. For me and also others, I hope. Now, let's switch to WeDoSolar. You're selling a balcony solar system. For some time, these systems were in a bit of a legal gray area here in Germany, and I that holds also for other countries. What's the latest in terms of the legality of these systems in Germany and maybe also in your other markets where you sell to?
[00:19:41.890] - Karolina
Yeah, I think when we started, definitely, it was like such a gray area We were also thinking, Oh my God, is this going to really work out? And will we be able to actually push the legislation and do the lobbying to make sure that these systems are actually allowed? I'm very we're very happy that our lobbying did work and things are much easier right now. I think the first allowance was 600 watts of installation in Germany. And then now from this year, from the start of this year, it switched to 800 watts. Basically, the capacity of wattage that you can install is increasing, which is fantastic.
From another side, also, we see that you can use a normal power So now this is not prohibited, where I think in 2021, when we started, it was still a gray zone. So people did it, but it wasn't exactly legal. So we're just saying, yeah, as long as it's safe and you think it's safe. But obviously, it was not the best way to proceed. But we did know on our side that it is safe and our devices are safe and nothing will actually happen in the household.
That's why we were confident enough to sell them. Of course, when we talk about European legislation, the allowance is 800 watts, but still it's quite broken down. So there's a lot of silos in terms of different countries having different legislation rules. For example, Italy has only allowance of 350 watts. So most of the players right that sell balcony solar don't go into Italy because it's quite a small amount to install, which doesn't give such a big significance of reduction.
And I was actually in Brussels with European Commission recently, a few months ago, where we spoke about how can we actually make the legislation across the board, that it really stays at 800 watts. So I think European Commission is really working on that right now to make sure that the legislation is rolled out across the board and there are no differences in different countries because it's extremely difficult with certification for other countries with the devices. You require different certification, different amount of output. So, yeah, not an easy task, but we're tackling it like one one country at the time.
And, of course, Germany had a lot of subsidies, right? So subsidies for the past two years have been massive. And a lot of our customers have gotten these subsidies and basically bought their solar sets free of charge.
[00:22:46.980] - Torsten
That sounds good. I was too late for that. I think you can still be. But it's so cheap. By now, it doesn't really matter anymore. In terms of legislation, Germany is where? At the top or somewhere in the middle?
[00:22:59.990] - Karolina
Germany is definitely at the top. Germany is number one country in terms of solar installation and adoption within Europe.
[00:23:11.250] - Torsten
For balcony systems?
[00:23:12.560] - Karolina
Not just for balcony systems, also for rooftop. Yeah, in general.
[00:23:16.750] - Torsten
Okay. But if we only look at balcony, your market segment, then would you say that the legislation is now super clear and transparent in Germany so that you have the largest market here in Germany?
[00:23:28.250] - Karolina
Yeah, absolutely. So if we talk about the installation of solar balconies in Germany, the latest numbers this year do say that it's around 500,000 installations within German market that have been registered. However, by talking to different partners and sources, it's not the number that is registered, but we know that it's probably around 2 million installations.
So a lot of the people simply don't register their devices, and they just use it. Because actually, the government doesn't really have a possibility to track whether someone has a solar system installed or not. So it's up to you as the German citizen to be transparent and register such device simply for the calculations of the grid management and how much maybe pressure there is within the grid. But I'm pretty sure that it's around 2 million devices, which probably would make up, let's say, 800 megawatt worth of power.
[00:24:49.300] - Torsten
Wow, that's quite a lot. You need to register, or is it just an option to register your balcony system?
[00:24:55.300] - Karolina
You do need to register. Before, it was quite bureaucratical. From this year on, You don't need to register it anymore with your electricity provider, but just with the network agency, which is super fast. We also offer the service within our app, so you just put a tick box and that's done. There is no hurdles there. But of course, there are providers that don't tell maybe their users or their customers that they need to register or what they need to do. I believe believe that this mismatch of numbers basically comes from that and also from people, I guess, not caring.
[00:25:38.300] - Torsten
I guess some of the criticism for balcony solar is that the systems can only be relatively limited in size. What impact do you think balcony solar can have in terms of the wider energy transition?
[00:25:51.410] - Karolina
Well, huge. I mean, if you think about if everyone installs balcony solar on their balcony, it has a huge impact. A, of course, you're making your bills slightly lower, but also you are reducing the fossil fuel usage out of the grid, and that's massive. I think the next stage is definitely usage of the batteries.
I I think the first wave was like, Okay, can we install solar on balconies? And then, can we install then batteries to optimize this usage of solar? And there are plenty of terraces and balconies that are very long and large. And we have customers that install two and three devices or sets on their balconies. So for them, it makes so much sense to have a battery to store that energy and to use it at night.
Of course, when the capacity is as low as 600 or 800 what, usually you would use it just for all your standby devices that you have plugged in. So this is quite easy. There's probably not so much overproduction. And if there is, it's very, very minimal. So there is no such pressure, I would say, on the grid, right? Because actually it's used right away where it's generated and it doesn't need to travel, right?
So I think the way our grids are and the fact that they are extremely old, the reason why big solar farms cannot bring, let's say, the green energy into the city, or at least not into all parts of the cities, is because of this travel that needs to happen from one point to another. And if we're generating energy on our balcony, we're using it right away. So actually this pressure doesn't happen.
But we also I think balconies is one thing, and we started with balconies, definitely a prominent product. But we're moving towards other devices, and we see that there is such a big need for batteries. We have our own inverters as well. My thinking of future is definitely, as you mentioned in your intro, smart household devices of solar. We're thinking about, okay, when there are enough devices out there, how do we manage the grid? How do we do grid balancing? How can we help electricity providers to have access to this data, to do the grid balancing, to make sure there are no pressures in some points? This is all what we're thinking about as well.
[00:28:39.120] - Torsten
One question back to the technicality. It's an 800 watt limit. That holds for the inverter, so not for the modules.
[00:28:51.480] - Karolina
From this year, the legislation changed that the output of the inverter that you can put into the house grid is 800 watt. But you can actually have up to 2,000 watts worth of solar power. If you think about it, this is four normal glass solar panels. If we're talking about glass, which usually have 440 to 500 watts each, this is what you can have. And this is fantastic. But in that set up, it would make sense to have a battery, because you wouldn't be able to use all this power right away in your household, and most likely you're not there during the day. So that's where the battery comes in place and obviously stores the power from the 2000 watts installation.
And it also plays not just on balconies, but I think also on single family households. We have a market that is starting at 10,000W installations for large rooftop installations. Obviously, super huge grid fees that everybody needs to pay in order to actually connect to the grid and be able to sell electricity to the grid. But in that sense, if you have a two kilowatt peak installation with a battery, you actually don't need that registration and you don't need to pay the grid fees.
That's the whole point, and I think a very new market for us as well.
[00:30:25.080] - Torsten
Who's going to do all that work? Tell us a little bit about WeDoSolar. It's almost four years old. What's your BHAG, your big, hairy, audacious goal? What's your mission? You already mentioned battery, so you're thinking about other application, but what else could there be? What's your, let's say, revenue target for in 5-10 years from now?
[00:30:46.060] - Karolina
It's difficult to talk about revenue. Obviously, we have our projections and the market size and what is possible. But I think first we were calculating in terms of how big is the solar balcony market. At the start, it was difficult to calculate because we didn't know how many people are actually going to install it, how many people are going to be interested in it. So we're like, I don't know. Let's see.
But overall, if we're talking about Germany, Germany has around 16 million households that basically can install balcony solar. And if we're talking about 2 million being installed, we're at 9, 10 % of that only. So there's still a lot of work to be done. And there's definitely opportunities just now, I think, with the new legislation that we can move potentially into a single family household, just with the smaller installations. So our market has become bigger.
Right now, we're actually preparing for our next funding round, our round A. This is where we will be then calculating and portraying how big our market really is and what revenues we're expecting. I think what we calculated in 2021 or 2022 has nothing to do with what is going to be now, right?
So the market is changing rapidly. And we definitely see that it's not just balcony solar. I think next thing we came out with an inverter. So we saw that there is huge problems with inverters simply because, yes, they are created or manufactured in China, and there are some really great inverter companies on the market, but they're not really consumer-oriented, right? So they're made for installers, for electricians, and not to be handled by the end consumer. So we saw a niche there that we can definitely take and came out with our own inverter, which is 5G connected, so you don't have to connect it to your Wi-Fi. You don't have to be reliant on Wi-Fi. You will always have data. It actually closes some other business cases that I can't talk about just yet, but they will be out very soon. And we basically see, okay, how can we perfect what is out there and make it better?
It's the same thing goes for the battery, right? How can we make the battery more interesting, more smart, better in terms of looking into the future and looking into these virtual small power plants that we're going to have across the board in the cities, in rural areas, and so on? And how can we use them to have a bigger impact in general?
[00:33:52.720] - Torsten
Let's come to an end. It's been wonderful, Karolina. My standard last question is, what does it take to get solar to the next level? You've already described some of the innovations, but when you look at the bigger picture on a global scale, where do you think what needs to be done to get solar to the next level?
[00:34:13.650] - Karolina
Well, I think there is still so much that needs to be done. The legislation is one of the cornerstones that hit everyone. I think support from the government. If we're not talking even about balcony solar, but even talking about rooftop solar, I think this year has been extremely hard for the solar industry in general, simply because of the inflation, but also competition, but also end of subsidies, for example, for rooftop solar, right? Grid fees went up. So from like 3.2 cents per kilowatt hour, they went up to 6.4 cents per kilowatt hour. And obviously, these are all the barriers that lower the demand of people and consumers that are willing to install solar.
I think more governmental support and more like outlined legislation is something that we really, really need to get to the next level to make sure that we operate really as a union and not as separate silos that have their own thing in the country. And I think connected devices and devices that are designed and made in Europe. I think If I had the possibility in terms of the cash flow and the investment, I would definitely base my manufacturing within European countries. But right now it's not possible simply because of the funds that I'm not able to get. And the more support we will see into this industry, the more down the line we're going to be better in terms of energy We will, let's say, switch to renewable energy much faster and we will be there much faster.
And I think in general, Europe is doing great strides to reduce CO2. And I think this year has been a a record year that renewable energy surpassed the amount of gas used, for example. And this is incredible. But there is still so much to be done. And I think this help for entrepreneurs makes a lot of sense. So I think the the VAT reductions, for example, on solar devices was fantastic. And this definitely helps us.
But when you don't manufacture in the country where you're at and you're still importing the devices from somewhere else, in our case, our manufacturing facility is in China. So even though we design everything here, but our manufacturing is in China, we still pay the VAT, let's say, on the entrance of the products. And this, I think, draws a lot of companies into cash flow problems simply because you have this three months period that this cash is frozen and then you get it back.
It's like, if the VAT is not there, why are we even doing this? Why can't we use this cash for something else? I think nobody really talks about it. But I'm super angry about this stuff because I know that I can put this cash to use for something else. But this cash is basically frozen on my bank account and it's It's just there to bring products here. So things like that, where legislation just doesn't make sense.
[00:38:09.110] - Torsten
Plenty to do. Thanks a lot, Karolina. Thanks for sharing your insights as an entrepreneur and your views on the solar industry. I wish you all the best for your new baby, WeDoSolar. Of course, we all hope that there will be a true peace for your home country and for Europe and the whole world, right? Absolutely. Thanks a lot, Karolina.
[00:38:33.430] - Karolina
Thank you for having me. Thank you. Bye-bye.
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